Interview with a sports lawyer. Part 10. Dev Kumar Parmar

I am happy to present our new interview with a successful international sports lawyer, principal director at Parmars, which has bases in the UK and Spain. Our guest is a teacher of lawyers from previous interviews: Jessie Engelhart, Gleb Kuznetsov, and Lucio Mazzei. Moreover, he has appeared as a visiting lecturer and a seminar leader at various institutions including both Cambridge and Oxford Universities and the London School of Economics. In 2012 he was nominated for both the London Organising Committee for the Olympic and Paralympic Games “Inspiring Person in the Community” – Dev Kumar Parmar (Linkedin).

– First of all, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to interview! Dev, you have an incredible career in International Sports Law. I would like to propose you return to University time. You received the Bachelor's degree at one of the best universities in the world, the University of Kent. Could you tell me please, what did you like in your University education, and do you use this educational strategy in your lectures now?

– First, thank you very much for inviting me to contribute to your blog. You are doing a wonderful job, and no doubt your readers are finding huge value in your interviews. Saying that I can only hope that they find this interview of interest, too!

My experience at Kent was overall a positive one, however in fairness when you talk about educational strategy, my lecturing style is a culmination of several things including my time at Kent. My way of lecturing has also been influenced by my training for the Bar, my subsequent Masters’ at City and at ISDE, amongst other factors.

I always enjoyed interaction and the opportunity to think, discuss and debate. However, I also appreciate that this is not always suitable. I would say the way I lecture is adaptable and is based on trying to understand what will work within each classroom setting.

I try to ensure that I have enough room for maneuver meaning that I am able to deliver the same presentation in totally different ways, depending on the level and interaction of the class in front of me.

Adaptability takes a lot of preparation, and requires a lot of trust for institutions to invite you to speak frequently; week after week or year after year. I am therefore honoured to be delivering classes, webinars, seminars, presentations and so on, so often, and I’m delighted that through this, you have reached out to have a conversation with me, also.

– You have continued your study with a Master in International Criminal Litigation. You have great experience in this area, but you have chosen Sports Law. Tell me please you feel some similarity between Sports Law and Criminal law, for example, when you deal with anti-doping rules violation?

– My vision was always to get into sports. At the time, when I was studying and training, I just didn’t quite know how this would manifest itself. The sector of sports law is still relatively nascent worldwide, and it was even more so when I first went to university nearly 20 years ago. The other area I enjoyed and found that I could add value with my skillset was criminal law, so naturally, I began veering in that direction, as there was the opportunity to pursue this sector, something that was absent in relation to sports. Throughout everything I was doing in crime; work, study, lecturing, I always kept searching for ways in which to enter sports, and over time I was able to develop enough relationships and trust from these people in me, to make the change.

There are some similarities, and you are correct in pointing out that anti-doping is probably the closest to criminal law (within sports), however, there are also disciplinary and ethics matters, often at which I would represent the client against what would be a ‘prosecutorial’ body; be it a club, federation or governing body. The planning of legal submissions, and the delivery thereof, are sometimes structured in a similar manner to how I was trained in crime, particularly when looking at a situation from the perspective of the defendant.

Overall, I feel that the key things I learned being around the criminal sector for several years were to be able and ready to react at any time. These attributes have assisted me in sports. Much like crime, sports is something that consumes you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There is no real holiday, and as such, my work is not confined to a regular 9 – 5 schedule.

– You are an Academic Director of the best International Sports Law Master Program – ISDE (https://isde.es/en/course/master-international-sports-law/). Also, you are the Principal Director of legal boutique Parmars: Sports (https://www.parmars-sports.com) and the Director of Legal and Governance of the British Volleyball Federation (https://www.britishvolleyball.org/). Could you tell me please which one the most difficult position for you: manage the academic program, law firm, or work in the federation?

– You are very kind about ISDE, and no doubt it has a great reputation as a global leader in sports law education. Pre-Covid, when I would be travelling the world for work, I would be asked about ISDE almost everywhere I went. I am proud to be at the forefront of the sports law masters (in English, as there is also a course taught in Spanish), but it would also be impudent of me not to mention that there are several institutions that are providing courses in sports law around the world, who all appear to be doing a good job and forging positive reputations in their own right.

The division of tasks between my roles is fairly simple, however. Effectively, my main role is as the principal of my own practice. I have associates and junior associates that I have a responsibility for, and I am required to supervise work as well as manage the company.

I have a significant role with ISDE, but there is a specific job description and there are parameters within which I operate. There are certain things that have to be done at certain points in the day, week, month or year. Similarly, with BVF, I am privileged to be bestowed with the title of legal and governance director, but my role still has parameters. Therefore the organisation of my time is manageable as I have one main role; my role with my company, and I have additional tasks with ISDE and BVF, for which I can apportion time (and resources through those that work with me at the company) accordingly.

– It is not a secret that all over the world there are not many Sports Law Firms and young sports lawyers more often choose a standard branch of law, for example, for a Master's degree, because afraid to remain without work. What do you think about it? It all depends on wish and motivation or we need to take into account the circumstances?

– I am passionate about the area, and I encourage passion and perseverance in order to achieve what the student wants to achieve. But I would always advise that this should be coupled with being pragmatic, and that prospective sports law students should be considerate of their own circumstances. I firmly believe that there is the timing for everything and that a student, in any area, should progress their postgraduate studies when they are completely ready to do so. This may mean that they progress when they are intellectually ready, financially ready, ready to commit time or one of many other things, but either way, they have to be totally aware of what they are doing and the challenges they might encounter.

This is even more important when studying sports law, or other similarly ‘newer’ areas of law, because there are no clear pathways as yet.

Furthermore, there is also no guaranteed pathway in sports law.

It is true that many ISDE alumnus fill the sector, and work within the key bodies such as FIFA, IOC, CAS, FIVB and so forth. Completing a Masters's in sports law, at ISDE or elsewhere can certainly be advantageous, but it does not provide a guarantee. It is important for students to note this, and come to institutions with hunger and desire to achieve the best they can, rather than expecting that the simple entry of an institution’s name on their CV will provide them with an open door into a career.

We referred to criminal law above; if one sets out to become a criminal lawyer, there is a pathway, in every country. You must undertake X, Y, Z, it will take you 5, 6, 7 years, but in the end, if you have completed all of the tasks you will achieve your goal. Thousands of people follow these pathways every year, and similarly, thousands who have been practicing, retire every year.

There is natural regeneration because the sector is well-developed and there are pathways thereto. Sports law is different in that the sector is still developing. Some of the biggest names in the sports law sector are our current contemporaries, whereas, as an example, some of the biggest names in civil/criminal law may often be historical figures from a century or two back.

Sports law still needs time for the sector to truly develop, and for firm pathways to emerge. With limited measurable aspects in place, I suggest it is prudent for prospective students to consider all of their circumstances before taking such steps. It is important that when they embark on such a study, they do so fully prepared to complete the course to the best of their ability and to show perseverance in order to achieve their objectives.

– You are a very successful person and you work a lot. How do you maintain the work-life balance? Do you believe in work around the clock or you prefer to divide your work and your life?

– This is a question I’m still trying to figure out, myself!

I do tend to work long hours most of the time, particularly as we have a truly international practice so I am often speaking to people from all parts of the world on any given day. To cater to time differences, I can be on conference calls early with the east, and really late with people in the west, so the days can be stretched.

I don’t really take any days off in the week, although in the past couple of years I have tried to engineer that some days are a little slower, or less busy, than normal. I am able to manage at this pace because I love what I do.

I am working in the field that I wished to work in, and as such, I am living my dream every day. This does not mean that everything is perfect, there are always benefits enjoyed and burdens carried. One of my personal challenges is to build more of a work/life balance, but in general, I have tended to work around the clock so far. Ask me again in another few years, and hopefully, I will give you a different answer because I will have finally found the solution!

– Which books (films) exist in your must-read (watch) list related to the sports law and usual life?

– My good friend Ivan Bykovskiy, who you interviewed recently, stated that sports law jurisprudence is essential reading, and I completely concur with this. In addition to this, keeping up with current affairs.

Sports are going on around the world all the time. There are controversies almost daily; be it in a disciplinary manner, a sporting manner stricto sensu, or otherwise. Just a couple of examples from the past weekend in European football: West Ham United v Manchester United; MU’s equalising goal came as a direct result of the ball has gone out of play. The referee and the referee’s assistant missed this, and VAR could not determine either way. A discussion could be had here about how fit for purpose the VAR system is if it cannot spot errors such as these and whether West Ham would have the ability to raise a grievance. Werder Bremen v Stuttgart, a player was given the yellow card for scoring a goal too slowly.

A discussion could be had about the thinking behind the decision made by the referee, and if the player picks up an accumulation of yellow cards leading to a suspension, whether there could be a mitigatory argument made in his and his club’s favour.

These are two small instances that have come to mind instantly, and furthermore, they are only to do with football. There is always something going on that is worth questioning, and worth deeper discussion. Keeping up to date is key.

If referring to books specifically, I tend to read books that open a window into the mind of stakeholders, and Eleven Rings by Phil Jackson was really good. I also enjoyed How to be a Sports Agent by Mel Stein.

1. Eleven Rings by Phil Jackson

2. How to be a Sports Agent by Mel Stein

In addition to that, I would suggest watching anything inherently competitive, to continue to soak in precisely how important sport is to the lives of its participants. Many movies have some inaccuracies born from forced dramatisation, but irrespective of this the Rocky franchise is always a good start to show the positive and negative impact of sporting endeavour, and achievement, on persons around the athlete. Another movie for the impact of sport on a family and the community, the Queen of Katwe is worth a watch; a well-directed movie about a Ugandan chess player.

1. Rocky (1976)

2. Queen of Katwe (2016)

– What advice would you share with our readers and young sports lawyers?

– When entering the industry, do your research, be humble about your position, and understand exactly what you need to do to go from your current position to the next step.

When you decide to study a sports law master, make sure you are ready in every sense, not only to complete the Master but to then potentially push continuously for a role without success for a couple of years. Finally when you have prepared yourself physically and mentally for the challenge, persevere.

It is the perseverant students that tend to achieve their aims, rather than those who expect success to arrive overnight. I am fortunate to have seen dozens of my old students go on and get great positions, but most of them had to work hard and bide their time.

For those that have already entered the sector, continue learning, keep focused, and develop your relationships. Don’t forget that you cannot do everything alone. Sometimes it is far better to collaborate on a case, or negotiation, alongside someone, and to learn from them also. It’s better to be a smaller part of something, than to be a big part of nothing. Don’t be afraid to reach out to those that are more established and to spend time with them, learn from them, and to work with them. It can only be beneficial for you in the future.

– I would like to thank you for this interview, to wish you to enjoy your work and I sincerely wish you a Merry Christmas, successes, and victories next year!

– Thank you Valeriya. With that, the only thing left for me to say is that I wish you and your readers the very best for the Christmas period and far beyond. It is my pleasure to be a small part of your blog; something that I have no doubt will be really big, so my congratulations go to you and your team. Keep up the great work that you are doing and I will be looking forward to reading more of your interviews in the coming year.